Was Jefferson the first Republican?

[everyman]

Originally Posted by Cato25

I say yes! He quit the Washington Administration in 1793 in fear that Washington's Federalists were big government oriented. He called his party "R"epublican; it stood for freedom or liberty from government exactly as modern Republicans do!!

Last time I looked ol' Willy called his party The Democratic-Republican Party. Both of today's current parties claim him as their founder and both have a decent historical claim, but the more direct is with the Democrats. When the party broke up, one faction went with Jackson to become the Democrat Party. The other went with Calhoun and formed the Whigs. When the Whigs broke apart after the 1860 election, they pretty much just transferred en masse to the Republican Party. (Lincoln himself was an ex-Whig.) But since Republicans are one step more removed, I have to give him to the Democrats.

But I agree with most of the other posters--he'd be more Libertarian than anything today.

[Cato25]

1) I have never read a Jefferson speech in which he used Democrat-republican or read 1790's newspaper that used D-R It was 100%Republican.

2) libertarians are often Republican eg Ron Paul

3) Democrats hate freedom or liberty from government

4) in 1820 Democratic-republican was used but democratic was used to convey extreme support for people against govt

[everyman]

Originally Posted by Cato25

1) I have never read a Jefferson speech in which he used Democrat-republican or read 1790's newspaper that used D-R It was 100%Republican.

2) libertarians are often Republican eg Ron Paul

3) Democrats hate freedom or liberty from government

4) in 1820 Democratic-republican was used but democratic was used to convey extreme support for people against govt

I do stand corrected. Jefferson did only use the term republican. It was Jackson that added the democratic- term and then shortened it to just democrat. (Another example of post first, look up later.)

But that doesn't negate the fact that Jefferson's party morphed into the Democrats, not the modern Republican party. The present Republican party is just a bunch of Whigs (who were just a bunch of Federalists) by another name.

[hugo]

Originally Posted by Cato25

2) libertarians are often Republican eg Ron Paul

The Republicans rejected Ron's views in the 2008 primaries in favor of the most liberal (in the modern use of the word) Republican nominee yet, John "Screw the 1st Amendment" McCain. Republicans are currently fawning over Screw the Firsts' running mate Sarah "Tax the oil companies and mail everyone a check" Palin. A woman who in her two years as governor increased the spending per capita in what was already the most socialist state in the union by 30%.

[capitalist dog]

Originally Posted by hugo

The Republicans rejected Ron's views in the 2008 primaries in favor of the most liberal (in the modern use of the word) Republican nominee yet, John "Screw the 1st Amendment" McCain. Republicans are currently fawning over Screw the Firsts' running mate Sarah "Tax the oil companies and mail everyone a check" Palin. A woman who in her two years as governor increased the spending per capita in what was already the most socialist state in the union by 30%.

Those were the impressions I got when I listened to their speeches and positions in the last election.

Libertarians are but a fringe element in the Republican Party only. They are without significant influence.

[O Death]

Bush the Younger was a media darling, just like Palin and Obama. The camera liked him, but he pretended to be put off.

I think I may have posted these naughty little nibbly bits comparing G. Dubya to the Common Era's definition of "Liberal" (Perhaps Progressive Democrat?). All I know is; Bush was a poor Republican by the Goldwater stamp of approval!

• Bush signed into law a campaign finance reform bill that is an affront to free speech. That's not very conservative.

• Bush, with Teddy Kennedy's help, pushed through the 'No Child Left Behind' act, which instituted unprecedented federal control over our school system. That's not conservative at all.

• Under President Bush, government spending has grown faster and government has grown larger than at any time in our history. An entirely new government agency has been created....The Department of Homeland Security. Growing government by leaps and bounds? Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave....and that's not very conservative.

• George W. Bush pushed and signed into law the prescription drug program for Medicare. This is billions and billions in new entitlement spending not even his fellow Texan LBJ could dream of. It was one of the single biggest expansions of welfare spending in decades. Not conservative.

• Bush's complete inaction on illegal immigration and his policy of looking the other way on border security and allowing as many illegal aliens in as want to come it not only outrageous, it's not conservative.

As I see it, Bush put forth exactly what he was ordered to put forth.

Buckley: Bush Not A True Conservative

Barack Obama and Sarah Palin on Taxing Oil Companies and Giving the Money to Others

And I know I posted the above link.

----

In short, it is only considered "socialism" and "fascism" when the Democrats are in power.

Obama meets stalemates after stalemates when trying to push his government takeover of healthcare legislation through. Why? The people are angry, the people want and expect more from their elected officials, and its the grass roots movements that have spurred these bureaucrats into action against this fascist regime.

Otherwise, you'd see more and more Republicans taking backroom, under the table deals like ol' boy in Nebraska!

DISCLAIMER: "Conservative" can be taken a number of ways, but I see the modern era's meaning of conservative as the Austrian Hayek's definition of "classic liberal".

[O Death]

Originally Posted by hugo

Sarah "Tax the oil companies and mail everyone a check" Palin. A woman who in her two years as governor increased the spending per capita in what was already the most socialist state in the union by 30%.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sarah Palin is G. Dubya in a skirt.

[O Death]

Originally Posted by O Death

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sarah Palin is G. Dubya in a skirt.

Addendum:

Obama, like Palin, is under the false impression that what they say isn't hypocritical when bashing their opposition's party.

[Hub City Progressive]

This is ridiculous. Jefferson was more of a Libertarian than a Republican. Besides that, there is no comparison between now and then. It is arrogant to pick and choose which party each side would be on.

If I could make a stab at it, I would say that John Adams was definitely Republican being that the Alien & Sedition Acts were compatible with the rhetoric of conservative talk show hosts during the drumbeats that led to the invasion of Iraq as well as the Patriot Act.

Honestly, I don't really see too many of them being Democrats. At least, not on the scale of a Democrat today. The closest I can come is perhaps Alexander Hamilton, for which if he had his way would have become our version of Napoleon Bonaparte if not for Jefferson's victory in the election of 1800. That being said, though, even he would be apalled at the Democratic Party of today.

[hugo]

If Jefferson was the first Republican Ron Paul is about the last one.